Why the Internet is Awesome

UPDATED 19 Sept 2013:

Last night I received a very odd e-mail. It was a (courteous) demand from Karla to remove this post -- based on the reconciliation of Ingrid and Chris Rosebrough. (Karla says now it was not based on Chris & Ingrid reconciling.  Noted.)

Let's face it: that's not much of a basis for doing much of anything except giving credit where credit is due to Ingrid and Chris. I said so to Karla, and said there is always forgiveness where there is repentance.

I figured that was the end of it, but this morning, something else happened: Karla sent me what I can only interpret as an honest and clear apology for what you can read below. That is: it seems to me she has seen the error of what she has done/was doing, and has given it up, and has sought out forgiveness for it.

I completely and utterly accept her apology, and credit her and her faith for it. If you are reading this post, you should revise it in this way: I really love the tomfoolery of the Internet, but I love Jesus more. I'm grateful for the way he changes hearts.

Back around 3 March, Karla Tadler outed Steve Camp and Mike Horton as "useful idiots" for the malevolent and unstoppable Rick Warren. I noted that we would all sleep better knowing that these guys are now out (I know -- right?), and the infamous Ingrid Schlueter chimed in to let me know that I think everyone is an idiot. Thanks, btw, for that!

I'd link to the whole thing, but I have unfriended Karla after the following exchange:



I'm outed, y'all. O-U-T. At least now I can wear my birkenstocks in public without feeling all weird about it, and my soul patch is only 10 days away from perfection.

33 comments:

Aaron said...

I always suspected your Calvinist gadfly thing was an act, Frank :P

I hope you've got your plastic glasses and frosted tips ready to go, too.

trogdor said...

I'm sure Dan will be thrilled to find out he's emergent, too. Like we didn't all see that coming.

Also, Ed Stetzer spoke at my church a few weeks ago, and I didn't stone him. In fact, I thought his sermon was pretty solid. Does that make me emergent, too? 'Coz I'm due for some new glasses and need to know if I should get some Bell-style.

Frank Turk said...

I can't wait to see this comment thread after I get back from Europe ...

Frank Turk said...

Trogdor: what you need is some skinny jeans and a huge wool hoodie. Black, of course.

ZSB said...

Being condemned by that crowd is the equivalent of a high compliment... What I don't get is how--when you never seem to really change what you say/write--people are still caught so insanely off-guard by you. The notion of not towing the CrossTalk line is so far outside the realm of possibility that they simply reject reality. Sad.

Neil said...

I keep telling you and telling you. Get more serious about the diet, and the emergent aspersions will stop.

ZSB said...

BTW, I'm just impressed that a dog could use facebook at all. I was really surprised when I saw that profile pic, because dogs don't even have thumbs...

Mike Westfall said...

I wonder if Chris R. is also considered emergent now, given the big dustup between him and Ingrid over the Horton/Warren thingy.

Matt L. said...

So this is how I learn that Frank thinks I'm an idiot.

P.D. Nelson said...

Frank I'm going to get my son to make some trading cards sort of like the old pokemon cards. They have you in all the variations, the Federal Vision Frank Turk, the Emergent Frank Turk, the Lutheran Frank Turk, The Baptist Frank Turk, The Reformed, wow we could have a huge deck of cards here.

Ed said...

Frank,

I wonder if, just perhaps, when you swim in a certain stream, you should not be surprised by the biting fish. ;-) Just sayin'.

By the way, I think you are a bad person. (O.K., not really, but I wanted to help you with the angry bloggers!)

Trogdor, thanks. I think.

Ed

David Regier said...

Hey, how are your studies in higher criticism going there in Europe?

Make sure you're in one of those big cold cathedrals on the Lord's day with your apostate brethren.

Vicki said...

Profile pictures of dogs are very good-it should however be a Bulldog-a quite handsome one.

ajlin said...

If Phil Johnson is emergent, does that (by the irrefutable logic of 'approving of someone who approves someone who was once friends with emergent makes you emergent') also make John MacArthur emergent? Because, if so, my mind has just been blown!

Thomas Louw said...

O, come on guys.
You misunderstanding what she is saying. She is saying your “emerging” not “emergent”.

That is the only conceivable explanation.

Warren is “Growth movement”

After that you become “Emergent” Bell.

The “emerging” church is something…well different.

This ladies not that far gone, she just got the definitions wrong:)

markshriv said...

Frank, Why not state flat out that being a CFR member means Warren can't be a Christian? And the fact that Piper is on board with Warren proves that he can't be a Christian. And that Macarthur is also wrong to allow Piper to teach his congregation.

Frank Turk said...

I am grateful that, though it had a massive hemmorage this weekend, Blogger is still notifying me when comments like Mark's, immediately above, turn up.

I don't think I would like the internet anymore if that ended.

Karla Tadler said...

Wow, just found this. A few things: Frank, you took a quote from someone else (Marsha West) and incorrectly attributed it to me. BTW, I've been warned about not trusting a screen-shotter... how sad to find you doing that. It really pains me to stumble across this, today. Not only did you do an incomplete telling of the screen shot, you put words into my mouth I did not say! When we quote someone or draw from their work, on-line, don't we have to supply the link to the source (especially if folks present are not eyewitnesses)?

Commenters, please, be careful about commenting when someone is quoted without the source of where the quote came. For example, I paraphrase Dr. MacArthur below and include where I heard him make the comment. Frank, and anyone at or listening to the live streamming of TSC, would know the paraphrase below.

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

Now, Let's put this thing into proper perspective by including the thread, in order to provide context, from my personal fb page that preceded you sending me a PM on fb, which actually began with you asking about me deleting one of your comments. Not only my thread, but also my blog which has further info about Stetzer.

Anyway, I did delete one comment from you to Ingrid as you were going down a road I didn't want you going down on my page. That would be the unkind, unloving sneering, spiteful, sarcastic road that I would guess you have struggles with because I have seen enough of it on-line. Suffice it to say, I'm not a screen-shotter, so excuse me for not knowing how to do that here. This is just an old-fashioned copy/paste.

In the thread below, way at the bottom, one will see who made the "useful idiot" quote, which Frank misplaced, intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know. Also, I believe the quote is directed at Horton only.

One will also note that Piper, Warren and Camp are not the only 'topics of discussion.' It is Stetzer and Camp, not Piper and Warren, who gave the greatest cause of concern for me with Frank being "emergent-friendly." I blog about Frank's Open Letter to Ed Stetzer at The Berean Library. And as I said, if one is emergent-friendly, well, they might as well be emergent (lack of doctrine of separation). Don't bother with the Driscoll or Kimball emerging or emergent tags. Its's all the same! I don't care how many lanes they want to make on their road.

Frank has never addressed these concerns with me himself, just told me to go check with his elders. As far having concern for Dan and Phil being deceived, that would be justified because they allowed and cheered Frank on with his kudos to Piper (within this past year and half) and Stetzer, as well. If one knows anything about Stetzer and Lifeway, an emergent promotion, among other false teaching, is duly noted. I also, blogged about Frank's (another) Open Letter to Piper.

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

Frankly, Frank, to be frank, quite frankly I don't appreciate the twisting of quotes and kindly ask they be corrected promptly. I never drew such lines in writing that the other writers at Pyro are "emergent-friendly," which Dr. MacArthur has nothing to do with. Thankfully, I heard Dr. MacArthur say at the last Shepherd's Conf, that his heart and passion is for "shepherding GCC, not the other ministries, like GTY, which has spun off his pulpit ministry" (paraphrase). He said he is "thankful for them, but they are not where his heart is" (paraphrase). I thank God for this comment from Dr. MacArthur because it separates him from any going-ons he may not be aware of at Pyro, etc.

So, here's that thread I mentioned that Frank twisted and left out of this blog post. What a no-no, Frank! I am very surprised at this sloppiness. Or maybe, if I didn't know better, I'd think you were bearing false witness against me. *FOR THE SAKE OF CLARITY TO UNTWIST THE TWISTING, I MUST PROVIDE IT.*

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

▶▶▶ *Updated* A Photo Says it All…And So Does Twitter- The Crosstalk Blog
www.crosstalkblog.com
For further information on the growing influence of Rick Warren inside the Reformed camp, here’s a piece from Apprising Ministries from last June.
March 4 at 12:34pm · Privacy: · Unlike · · Share
You, Kelly Dobbins and Martha Mac like this.

Karla Tadler ha! was glad to find this piece as well on Steve Camp! ☛ http://surphside.blogspot.com/2010/06/steve-camp-endorses-rick-warren-as.html
March 4 at 12:35pm · Like

Marsha West My first thought: Holy moley. My second: Do not comment...stay out of it. Prayer is in order.
March 4 at 2:39pm · Like

Jim Powell Oh no, not Michael Horton. No. Please.
March 4 at 6:03pm · Like

Rick Wagner The Steve Camp articles seem to draw a lot of conclusions from one rather cryptic (athough concerning) and brief Twitter entry. Is there any more substantial support for Steve's alleged endorsement of Warren? Or has anyone addressed this with Steve himself? It is very hard to find any Reformed musicians out there with Biblically solid lyrics in their songs. I found Steve to be one of the few. If it is true he is drifting Warren-ward, we should contact him with our concerns and pray for him. Especially since he has previously stated he understands Warren's false teachings. If it is true, it is a very sad thing...
March 4 at 7:25pm · Like
Karla Tadler ‎"cryptic" Rick? It was less than a year ago. Tweets are brief, but can say a lot like this one did. Don't know if anyone has addressed SC. First I saw of this... though I had been wondering and discerning something was 'off' last time I viewed his site, which was last summer. If you follow his ministry, perhaps you are receiving a burden to in fact make contact with him about this. Would love to hear how that goes. Praying for God-pleasing results. Wolf Warren is certainly on the move in the reformed camp (no pun intended). Prayers for the body of Christ.

True about lyrics. I recommend the Getty's music.
March 4 at 9:04pm · Like

Kim Allyn Oh boy....:-( It figures. Birds of a feather, as they say....
March 5 at 3:41am · Like

Frank Turk That's awesome - now that Steve Camp has been outed as having lunch with Rick Warren and tweeting exactly what everyone already knew already, we can all sleep better.

Better write to Steve's fledgling church. They need to know.
March 5 at 6:39am · Like

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

Rick Wagner Guess I'm a bit behind the curve regarding Steve Camp. The surphside article seemed to only mention that one Twitter entry, then went off extensively based only on that. I just thought if there was more proof she would have included it in the article. Just wanting to do sufficient research and due diligence before drawing conclusions.

With just some quick online searching, I do see some very concerning "Emergent Language" coming from Steve. I'll have to look into it a bit more, then perhaps contact him myself.

The whole thing with Camp & Piper is it grieves me deeply. It is so hard to understand and believe that two seemingly very theologically & doctrinally solid Pastors/Teachers can be swayed into deception. And it appears Steve has even spoken out against those like Warren & McLaren in the past. He knows better.

Keep up the good work, Karla! Anything we can do to warn anyone that will listen to avoid the flood of false teaching permeating the "church" today. And from my little view of what is going on, that word "flood" may even be an understatement. Satan is stepping up his efforts BIG TIME knowing his time is short. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
March 5 at 8:10am · Like · 2 people

Rick Wagner Karla - who are the Gettys?
March 5 at 9:33am · Like

Brian Craig Leaven once added to the lump cannot be removed and will work it's way through until the whole lump is ruined. Beware for many will deceive and be deceived. We look to You Lord Jesus that You would give us great discernment in these matters.
March 5 at 9:45am · Like

Karla Tadler Amen, Rick! Maranatha, Lord Jesus! Yes, when I found camponthis, at first I was excited thinking, "What a great site! Who is this? Steve Camp as in the guy I saw in concert years ago??" Pulpit mag was listed, etc. As I continued to scroll down, it took a turn. I saw Ed Stetzer (Emergent promoter at Lifeway) listed in his blogroll. So, yes, emergent-friendly, if you will, at least. Not good!

Frank, have you drawn your doctrine of separation line in the sand, yet? It seems with your comment you are rationalizing for MH the same way CR is for his lack of submitting to Scripture's authority. He comes with his "cannons" aimed at Ingrid for the purpose of promoting his snapshots and friendships with emergents because of this photo. Now, you have commented to do the same for MH b/c you have had the 'same lunch?' Photos, restaurants, tweets, blogs, etc with wolves... why? With all due respect, concern and love for the truth and God's own, this counter-biblical mingling is dangerous and there will be a price paid for it by all who participate.
March 5 at 9:49am · Like

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

Karla Tadler The Getty's are from Northern Ireland. They write beautiful, modern hymns with deep, biblical lyrics, much like the classics. They toured with the True Women's conference '10, which is where I met them. We sing their hymns at our church. You probably have heard the one they are becoming very known for, "In Christ Alone," which is being performed by many artists now. (not the Michael English one) ☛ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLy8ksqGf9w
March 5 at 9:54am · Like

Rick Wagner Karla - thanks for the referral to the Getty's. I am familiar with their music, just not them. Kristyn has an amazing voice!
March 5 at 10:19am · Like

Marsha West Frank Turk...I was going to stay out of this, until I read your snide comment. I'm a huge fan of Michael Horton's. So naturally when I saw the picture of him and RW looking very chummy, with a bust of John Calvin between them to demonstrate that their Reformed beliefs unite them, I was deeply disappointed. I thought to myself, "Is Mike Horton paling around with Wolf Warren?" I didn't have to check Mike out as I'm convinced that, theologically, he's as solid as a rock. I know this from reading his essays and listening to WHI. What struck me, though, was Mike's poor judgment. Would men of strong convictions such as MacArthur, RC or Mohler put their arm around an apostate and grin for the camera? Not on your life! Sadly, Michael Horton has alllowed himself to become a useful idiot.
March 5 at 12:08pm · Like · 2 people▶▶▶

Thank you!

Frank Turk said...

OK -- another reason the Internet is Awesome is that here we are almost 4 months later, and now that Karla is aware of my complaint it's alive again! Yay!

Unless Karla can produce a link to a page which shows what I did to fudge the screenshot, her charge is unfounded. My opinion: she's just trying to stall the economy for political reasons. My charge is more serious than hers, so I win.

As to who said what, Super: I stand corrected. Ingrid did not call Steve and Dr. Horton "useful idiots" -- Marsha West did. Seeing that Kalra would never let such a great piece of "discernment" get retracted or admonished, I'm having a hard time seeing the crime here.

BTW, where is Ingrid these days? Let's hope she's well.

Karla Tadler said...

Yeah, how 'bout that, Frank! A false attribution has been floating 'round in cyberspace made by you in regards to me. Yep! In black and white for about 4 months before I found it.

Agreeing or disagreeing with the quote is not the issue. Rather, it is false attribution of it. Don't get me wrong, if I was ever mistaken for Marsha West, that would be fine with me because I believe we would be on the same page!

You did not properly inro the screen shot, in it's proper context nor provide the link to the quote. You had sent me that pm because I deleted a very snarky comment by you to Ingrid, which I was not going to allow on my private fb wall.

1) Like I said, good advice from a friend to never trust a screen shotter, esp if they do it with private messages!

2) You continue to misquote Marsha West on top of it all. It was not "useful idiots." It was "useful idiot" referring to Horton only, not Camp.

I see you only posted some of my comments about this matter. You left out two more of them with valid points, proving yet further you are not to be trusted.

Frank Turk said...

yes: I'm the criminal here. I've destroyed the Gospel with this, I am sure, as well as a prophet and the son of a prophet.

Good thing you're here to out guys like me, Steve Camp and Michael Horton. Without you, would there even be a Christianity left?

Frank Turk said...

For the record, I approved all of Karla's notes from the blogger filter. I'll see if I can find them and bring them up here. Her every word is special, after all.

Karla Tadler said...

This was a comment I made to Phil last night on his fb status which was about tweetdeck being a pain at times.

▶▶ ▶(warning: this is *as sarcastic* as Frank Turk, he's da bomb! Enjoy!) ☛ Why tweet your life away when you can do something much more fun and is pain free like... ummm... screen shots? yeah! of private messages you have with other people that trust you... yeah, like your co-writer Frank Turk, for example. He gets a real kick out of it and an extra boot for twisting the meaning/whole text and intro of the screen shot while he's at it. You should ask him if you don't believe me. Oh, yeah, and starts off this screen shot blog of his with a triple wammy! A false attribution, a false quote and interpretation of the quote all in one (the intro) to get the pot of poison going, as if that wasn't enough fun and games to enjoy in and of itself! It's a good thing you have such a trustworthy guy on your team who knows how to have a lot of pain free fun! Throw out that tweetdeck and give 'ol Frankie a call!! And he's quite the editor of comments to his blog, I have found, as one who has tried to set the record straight there. After all, a proper, honest correction is no fun so he would never allow that kind of interruption with so much pain free fun going on! What a great example for the flock! Now, I know... I'm just havin' some fun with "fb antics" as Frank would say. And to that I would quote an example of Frank *again* when speaking of a well-known voice in discernment, from his blog (source), you're not "consequential enough in the big scheme of things to be a factor in who can and can't follow my antics on Facebook." (quote/unquote) ...nice. What a guy, that Frank Turk! And what a circle of blog friends he has going in the pain free antics business! Many of whom who don't know the correct meaning or presentation of the word, "outed." Being mixed up like this, living in da nile, is a great way to live pain free! ye-haaa! Whooops, I forgot something... then there's eternity.Well, thank you for going ahead with posting my comment, lengthy I know, in its *entirety* this go 'round. It makes your second to last comment look out of place, though.▶▶▶

Acting like Frank can get things moving, though I most certainly would not recommend it! Interesting how now all my comments are finally here since last night.

(cont.)

Karla Tadler said...

(cont.)

You would be wise to repent and delete this falsified, misrepresented post on your blog, Frank. And wether or not you do, I have forgiven you and sincerely hope we can learn from this and put this thing behind us.

//In summation: That private message came from you to me. You were tossing around the idea to separate due to me deleting a comment of yours on my private fb page while thinking Ingrid had some bearing on that with me. She did not. I made that call on my own. Didn't want what happened at Pyro comments to happen on my wall. I went on in this private conversation to test you/to press you to 'come clean' about being emergent (I was suspecting). I wasn't "outing" you on a public blog report as I have been accused of. I was having a private conversation with you. I was still testing the Frank Turk waters, which were very new to me, but getting quite turbulent, as open letters to Stetzer and Piper were being published that were so far from the WHI open letter, which I really liked and was my first encounter of you.

But in the pm you deferred me, correction, to Phil and your elders instead of addressing me as directly as I was addressing you. Then you defriended me. I did not defriend you.

As you know and I'll write it again, there are more layers to this than what you mention here. I had responded to your open letter to Ed Stetzer about a month prior. So, this was very much on my mind during the private message. Not that I was saying you were full blown emergent, of course, but emergent-friendly, yes. Then I went on to say to you that would be the reason I would separate from you, or anyone who is emergent (or anyone purporting what is false as truth). Not because you became offensive on my fb page.//

When it comes down to it, we can categorize false teachers all we want, but every false gospel over laps to one degree or another; all of them being quite comfortable with one another. Put them all in the same room and they'll have a party goin' on! Well, the NAR might become territorial.

Warren can be as emergent, seeker-sensitive, church-growth, watered-down, ecumenical, liberal, humanistic, new age/mystical, etc, etc all he wants. And so can all the others when they turn their back on the truth. They all deviate out of 'their categories' whenever necessary.

In the end, the deceptive myriad of false teachings all boils down to being of the devil. I want no part of any of them, as a believer shouldn't. Except to mark (Rom 16:17) warn (Acts 20:26-31) expose (Eph 5:11) and separate (1 Cor 5:11) from them. Because Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and Jude all warned believers about not being mislead.

May you never be mislead, Frank, all by the grace of God. I can say, it is a very unfruitful, displeasing and time-wasting road to go down.

Blessings to You and Yours!

-Karla

Frank Turk said...

I'm just going to enjoy allowing you to rattle on, Karla. You keep sending your comments, and I'll keep approving them. Your view of what's happening here is a lot more amusing that I could invent.

Matt said...

I'm new to this conversation but I'm trying to understand if this is satire or for real. Karla seems too hilarious to make up...

The letter E said...

Hi Karla,

I have been reading Frank's blog for some time now and have never commented until now. To be honest, I feel rather compelled to having read all of your comments and feeling rather embarrassed for you.

I spent some time reading items on your website 'The Berean Library' and couldn't help but wonder how a stay-at-home mother of 5 finds the time to maintain a website, read and critique books and manage social networking.

I also wonder how your husband feels about you spending all this time on the internet communicating with other men?

My kind suggestion to you is that you spend less time on your computer and spend your time studying your bible and praying.

Your 5 kids and husband may always appreciate more time with you.

From one mother to another.

Liz

Logan Paschke said...

Hahahahahahahahaha. Haha.

And people wonder why megachurch leaders do so many blog posts on the fringe discernenment watchbloggers...

it's because they are out there.

Yes, is it satire? I don't know, the lines are far too blurred.