Flaws

Just to keep thinking about the question of leaving your church in a way which is, frankly, more substantive than throwing rocks at people who probably don't like you and whom you probably don't like, let's think about this for the weekend:

Are there any important flaws in your theology? If you say "no" to that question I have two suggestions for you which I think you have never considered:

[1] You have probably not considered your theology very significantly if you can't see any inconsistencies in it. That doesn't mean you're a heretic or an idiot: it just means that maybe you should think harder about the things you think are important -- especially when you say they are important enough to split from your local church over.

[2] Someone else of the same stripe could, without some deeper consideration, use those flaws you yourself cannot see in your theology to name you as a reason to leave your church. Someone might fault you for your inexplicable inability to connect the Abrahamic covenant to the New Covenant; someone else might find your view of the history of the world a little too-simply diagrammed, or perhaps not robustly diagramed, and thereby expell you from orthodoxy for adding to or subtracting from Scripture.

And I say this to point something out to you: while there is no question that you shouldn't join or stay joined to a Mormon church or a rank Pelagian cult like Unitarianism, you yourself are not actually a prize catch in the theological sea. You're a smelly little sinner who is getting fished out of your stinky little pond by a fisherman who has chosen to save you out of His love and kindness and not because your are some kind of Rainbow Fish or a prize-winning theological Sea Bass.

It shouldn't be a surprize that you're in a fishbowl now with other smelly little fish. But it should cause you to rejoice -- and love the ones the fisherman has saved with you. Together.

Be in the Fisherman's fishbowl with his school of fish on His day this week, and thank Him that you're His smelly little fish. And so are they.

complaints

Before you click any links in this post, be warned that this is seriously adult material -- no joking, stuff you probably don't want your kids reading through above and beyond the normal level of affrontery that I publish here -- and you don't want your kids clicking through in spite of the fact that the links are to a PDF at my host site and the original at Yahoo! Financial news.

Here's the Yahoo! Finance link and the PDF version hosted for when the Yahoo! story goes away.

Here's all I'm going to say about that: read the Larry Flint quote in that article, and then ask yourself what sort of mad self-deception it takes to say something like that. As if condoms were the problem.

WHOIS calvinistgadfly.com?

Aha. Who's the "calvinist gadfly" now, smart guy?

The Big One

NASA not funded to do what Congress mandated it must do.

There's not reason to comment. There's not one good thing in that story.

Cathedral

I love this.

Keep your comments positive and helpful.

Not done lightly - sidebar

Since dissenting voices and complainers are being moderated out (and it's whooly the right of the site owner/operator/barkeep to do sech a thing), take a look at this gem of an open mike at InternetMonk.com.

I haven't got all the way through it. Feel free to comment here, but within two rules:

[1] no personal shots at the proprietor or his legion of commentors. Stuff like, "what did you expect from these people?" or speculations on the heretical pH of the comments will be dealt with harshly, if not in a timely manner. I don't personally have a great appetite for what's being said over there, but it doesn't improve anything by throwing rocks at them.

[2] if you can't think of what else to say about that thread, think about this: what does that thread tell us about whether or not the people out there who say they are christians care about the Gospel as a foundation and a means for reconciling (as they say) Jew and Gentile into one new mankind.

Not done lightly (4)

Alert Reader "Tom" has become a non-lurkering reader, and has offered some insightful commentary via the meta. This is some of it:

Where does it say in Scripture that one cannot leave a local assembly and go to another local assembly who are actually committed to worshiping the Lord in spirit and truth? Or are you applying loose principles?

I think my principles are pretty tight.

Here's my reasoning:

Jesus Christ came to establish his kingdom among men in creation. That is: he came to do a real thing -- something you can see, feel, touch. The advent of that kingdom is the church. (and while I think doing this breeds a lazy habit in the readers, cf. Mat 16; Acts 2; 1 Cor 1; 1 Cor 12; 2 Cor 8)

When we say "the church" and mean "no such gathering in particular but any such gathering in general", we abuse the word "church" (really: ekklesia) into something which it does not mean. In almost every case in the NT, the word "church" refers to a particular gathering of the believers (see all the references above; also Gal 1; Eph 1; Eph 5; Phl 3). When "church" does not refer to the local assembly, it refers to all such bodies in order to draw from the idea of what is given to all believers to the specific matter of some local church (see 1 Cor 1; Col 1).

In this, one thing is certain: Christ loves the church -- not just in general, but specifically all local churches. That includes, for example, the church in Galatia who was believing and practicing something Paul said made the work of Christ into nothing; that includes the local church in Corinth which was divided, permissive toward sin, abusive toward the sacraments, unsure about idolatry, chaotic in worship, and forgetful of the Gospel. That is: it is unquestionable that Paul called both of these badly-corrupt bodies "churches" who still had the blessing of Christ and the cornerstone of the Gospel upon which to build or rebuild its faith life.

Now, here's where we either must follow scripture or just admit we don't intend to at all: in both these cases where the local church has pretty much done its worst, Paul does not instruct anyone to flee. That's an important "not said" -- but only because it is in direct opposition to what Paul actually said. In Galatia he did not say, "so the few of you who are right with the Gospel should abandon those who are not," but he did say, "I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain. Brothers, I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are... Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth? [the Judaizers] make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you." [Gal 4] That is, he said, "because you are in dire faith trouble, I want to come back to you." And then a moment later he says, "Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now." That is: "You, my brothers, are being put to a terrible test -- like Isaac being persecuted by his brothers."

Not one hint of fleeing, but a broad and clear message of staying together in the course of faith, staying the course in a time of trouble, and a longing to be with them through the hard time.

Is your church like the Galatian churches? Then do what Paul did and exhorted them to do because they were a church, and your assembly is also a church. This does not apply to Mormons, or JWs, or Hindus, or what have you: it applies to churches in the heritage of faith which have not openly dismissed the Gospel from their midst.

But a church is a church, not a commodity. It is a place where we have brothers and sisters, not merely acquaintances and buddies. The calling there is greater than marriage and greater than family -- and to treat it as lesser or inconsequential is to wholly negate what Paul here appeals to in order to win the Galatians away from their corrupted ways.

It is exactly what Dr. MacArthur says in his opening sentence: something which cannot be done lightly. It is a grave matter to leave a church -- and not a matter which we should see as merely preferential or opportunitistic.

The local church is called a body in which all the members need each other. In 1 Cor 12, Paul makes the case for many gifts and many kinds of members to dispel the Corinthian enthuisiasm for the ecstatic gifts -- but his argument there digs deeper. Think about this: The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, which our more presentable parts do not require. [1 Cor 12] What kind of plea is that, except to say that the church is not only made up of the strong, or of the great, but also of the weak, and in fact the weak are indispensible.

This is such a brilliant analogy -- especially when we consider what Paul has already said in 1 Cor 11: I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. You know: this is again an admonition that somehow the right ones must stay for the sake of the broken ones.

So in this, I ask you: is Paul really silent on whether or not we can or should leave a church? Or has he spoken to this problem already, requiring us not to abandon the church when it is weak and fallible, but to stay joined to it for Christ's sake, and the sake of those who are in error?

And I say all that to say two things to conclude the week:

[1] Keep this in mind as we go back to the GTY statement and consider what it says after its list of reasons a church may be corrupt.

[2] Be with the Lord's people on the Lord's day in the Lord's house this weekend because it is where you belong. This is where you are called out to, and while you need it, it most certainly needs you.

Not done lightly (3-a)

It came up in a few e-mails and a note in the meta that we haven't talked about the problem of "abuse". And we haven't, I admit it -- because I think the category is too broad. All manner of things get tossed in there -- from the worse sorts of things like physical assault or sexual stuff to someone (a human being, you see) losing his temper (as opposed to being prone to violent outbursts) or someone simply rebuking someone who needs a rebuke but isn't emotionally equipped to handle it.

So if we have to talk about it (and we should), I'd say we need better categories to use to talk about it. And here's the thing: the Bible gives us those categories. We don't need the secular law or the materialistic psyhologist to define these categories.

Here are the things an overseer/pastor/elder should not be:

• He must not be arrogant
• He must not be quick-tempered
• He must not be a drunkard
• He must not be prone to violence
• He must not be greedy for gain
• He should be a one woman man, with all that entails

Now, that's a starter list -- it doesn't go to the criteria in the letters to Timothy, and it doesn't speak to all the other disqualifications in the rest of the NT like he shouldn't be someone who demands harsh rules, or whomeone who thrives on conflict and divisions. But as a starter list, what do you do about it?

Listen: if your pastor or an elder in your church hits you, and it wasn't a bar fight* or a situation where you baited him into violence through taunting and hateful behavior, he has disqualified himself. If you persue that with your church, either they are going to tell him to leave, or they are going to tell you to leave. You either have a church which recognizes what's right and what's wrong, or you don't. If you don't, as enablers they're going to make you the problem, and you should be glad to see they are like that -- because they'll show you the door.

I'm not saying it will feel really good and you'll get all vindicated and immediately sanctified: it's going to hurt deeply, and leave you angry and bitter, but when they tell you to leave, just leave. And I have a suspicion that this will work in all the cases above -- for the angry man, the violent man, the drunk, the guy who's greeedy for money or power or "respect" (whatever that means), the womanizer. use Mat 18 as a model, bring it up, and move on.

Nobody -- not me, and certainly not Paul or Jesus -- wants the church to be a place where people are abused. It's supposed to be a place where our infirmities are healed by His stripes.

---

*If it is a bar fight, you have to admit that you were both someplace you shouldn't have been doing things you shouldn;t have been doing, and repent.

Not done lightly (3)

So the statement at GTY goes like this:

However, there are times when it becomes necessary to leave a church for the sake of one's own conscience, or out of a duty to obey God rather than men. Such circumstances would include:

• If heresy on some fundamental truth is being taught from the pulpit (Gal. 1:7-9).
• If the leaders of the church tolerate seriously errant doctrine from any who are given teaching authority in the fellowship (Rom. 16:17).
• If the church is characterized by a wanton disregard for Scripture, such as a refusal to discipline members who are sinning blatantly (1 Cor. 5:1-7).
• If unholy living is tolerated in the church (1 Cor. 5:9-11).
• If the church is seriously out of step with the biblical pattern for the church (2 Thess. 3:6, 14).
• If the church is marked by gross hypocrisy, giving lip service to biblical Christianity but refusing to acknowledge its true power (2 Tim. 3:5).

Now, who is really going to argue that these things, each on its own, are not serious and significant problems? These start to come under the umbrella of “not done lightly” if and only if we take the solution as seriously as we take the problem.

Before we step one word further here, I think this is a place where Phil and I have a pretty serious disagreement in theory, but it’s important to note that this difference in theory doesn’t blow up into a war of attrition where our friendship or fellowship is in danger. And I say that first to make the point that what I’m about to write here I know factually is not the position of GTY, Phil Johnson or Dr. John MacArthur – and I respect their difference in this matter.

But I say that also to make the point that this is exactly the way we ought to handle all of these problems in a church. If you want to wag your finger at a problem, go find a child to wag your finger at, or maybe a dog which will feel appropriately chastised by your umbrage. And if you want to go and shake the dust from your feet at somebody, go find a strip club or the local branch of “Unity” to dust off with – someplace that has never been a church, and has never welcomed the Gospel in its midst.

But this urge to separate over error is, frankly, a bad application of a good biblical principle.

Let me qualify something before the “yeah buts” start: what we’re not talking about is the process of finding a church home in the first place. You know: you can’t just walk in the door at the first place with a cross on the sign and hope to go as deep as I am really pleading with you here to do. If you’re a Presbyterian, you’re going to never come to terms with a non-denom church; if you’re a Lutheran, well, just find the right Lutherans; and in truth and sympathy, if you’re a Reformed baptist, the odds of you finding a merely-non-calvinist (rather than anti-calvinist) SBC or Independent Baptist church is probably below 1 in 500. We are not talking about the process of finding a church here: we’re talking about the place which you, in your wisdom which now condemns the place where you are part of the body, chose in the first place by whatever means you used to get there.

For those who aren’t goo with nuance, let me say it this way: “You made your own bed by the means you made it in your wisdom at the time. Now using your new-found wisdom, sleep in it.”

See: the good and godly Biblical principle is “Let him who has done this be removed from among you,” right? Some version of the idea that you shouldn’t abide sin and you shouldn’t be yoked up to unbelievers.

But the problem, ultimately, is you – that is, you’re not the heretic from which we ought to be separated, but you’re the one who, yesterday, or last week, was one of these people in this church who didn’t know any better – and now apparently something which is not in this church is now in you, and you think that means you have to leave - because of the wisdom found in Gal 1, 1 Cor 5, 2 Thes 3 and so on.

But this interpretation of this principle neglects the greater matters of the New Testament. Yes, unquestionably: anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. But there is also the problem of James 5, and 1 Cor 6, and Mat 5-6-7, and the question of whether or not we are supposed to live together as an assembly before God as a people meant to be saints together.

So the Exit sign is not as clearly indicated as we tend to think in our post-fundamentalist culture of Christian conservativism. In fact, it may in fact be the exact opposite – that what the text actually indicates is that those who are in error must either repent or be shown the door after they have been rightly and lovingly disciplined.

Now here’s where I sign off for the day: don’t respond to this post if you haven’t read the others that go with it. Don’t raise objections to this post which are clearly answered in another one in this series posted this week. You’re a grown-up, I hope. You’re a big enough person to decide for yourself that your church stinketh, so be a big enough person to paste together this argument for something better and more Gospel-like than running away from men because they are sinful.

More to come.

Not done lightly (2-B)

Alert Reader "Kyle" axed this in the comments:

Sounds fine. But can you give me an example of any circumstances under which it might be acceptable to leave a church before they ask you to? For instance, the leadership opts for infant baptism, or tongue talking, or inviting Bill Clinton to preach...

Our beloved reader Rachael Starke has already pointed us not only in the right direction but in the actually biblical direction. I will be more explicit for all of you.

Imagine you are sitting in a restaurant (because of course, you would never be seen in a bar) with a friend, and you start talking about marriage. And that friend says to you, "Kyle, when can I walk out on my marriage?"

Now, I am sure you're a right-minded person, and you say something like this: "well, never. Jesus was clear about that -- what God has joined together, let no man tear apart. It's your marriage, not some arrangement for convenience sake. No offense, of course -- why do you ask?"

And your friend looks at you a little put out. "So you're saying that if my wife is a prostitute, I can't leave?"

And you're a little shocked by that statement, so you ask: "Is she a prostitute?"

"I'm just sayin'," he responds, "what if she starts turning tricks in our house. Can I leave if she does that?"

"Why would she do that?" you ask. "Has she made a move in that direction? Is she placing ads on CraigsList or something?"

"How should I know," your friend says, "I hardly talk to her. I have other things to do -- like ministry. Like work. I have to provide for my family."

And you rightly supress a laugh there, because what he's talking about is wrecking his family -- when can he finally give up on his family. But you stick with him because you love him -- it's good to give a personal example in a time like this, so in the same way you think he should stick with his marriage and his wife, you stick with him.

"So you're saying that, since you don't have time to be in a fully-informed relationship with your wife, and that seems to leave the door open for all manner of things to creep in, you want to know when you're cleared to leave -- from a Christian perspective?"

"Well, when you put it that way ..." he says, a little angry with you.

"I'm not the one who put it that way, my friend," you respond pointedly.

And you would have done well to respond pointedly. Look: every time someone want to manage the normal Christian life from the perspective of the far extremes (wherever you chart those extremes), you get legalism -- because God knows we do not want to ever find ourselves near people who are doing things which are evil, like that publican over there with his head tilted down like he's asleep or something. So managing your relationship with your church by charting out points of no return after which you must leave is, frankly, anti-Biblical and anti-Gospel.

What if you instead were charting out the path to being closer to your church -- not the building, but the actual people in the household of God -- with points of no return after which there is no going back to being a lone ranger. If there's anything true about Paul's letter to Titus, it is that Paul sent Titus to Crete to "set things in order". But the way by which Titus is instructed to set things in order is to find the guys who are formed by the Gospel, make them the leaders, and then build a community in which guys like these are thereby replicated. Somebody, someplace, has to lead by example -- and luckily for us, Christ did.

LOVE SOMEBODY, for crying out loud. You know: LOVE. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers, in case you don't have your Bibles open. God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. We have a great savior, but he is also our exemplar, if we are really going to be like him.

He didn't leave when people turned out to be sinners. He wasn't surprised and taken aback and thereby hurt and therefore now jaded. Now you poersonally -- go and do the same.